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  • Andy Rowell is a third year Doctor of Theology (Th.D.) student at Duke Divinity School. His primary concentration is "Church, Ministry, and Evangelism" and his secondary concentration is "New Testament."

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« My Yahoo LAUNCHcast Radio Station and Why I Listen to Lectures and Sermon Audio | Main | Seminaries for Evangelicals »

March 05, 2006

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Call Me Ishmael

If a church emerges in the postmodern wilderness, and there's no seminary professor there to see it, are contributions to it still tax-deductible?

S.P. Andress

Good points Andy. I think you do rea;ize that Gibbs and Bolger percieve the non-organic or not from scratch churches (e.g. Bell, Driscoll, and McManus) as extensions of boomer or hierarchical models. Each of these three church planters was spawned off of a larger church. Most of the organic new communities are from disillusioned twenty-somethings who grew up in evangelicalisms epicenters. Now, without question, I would lump Bell, McManus and Driscoll into the Emerging Conversation. Thier ethos is foundationally other than that of a Willow Creek or Purpose-Driven paradigm. Brian McLaren has most recently been making distinction between how we should use emerging church and instead emphasizes when speaking in genralizations we use emerging conversation. Emerging Church from what I gather in being at Fuller and listening to Gibbs and Bolger is unattached to an institution. They may spring up in a poker club, bar, coffee shop, dance club and may have no aspirations of a building campaigns or numerical growth.Frost and Hirsch further illuminate this, but they prefer the term missional, ala Gudder and GOCN.Great review and definately a needed critique. I do appreciate the non-linear more documentary approach they used in capturing the EC ethos.Peace

Anonymous

more on termsi think there is still this incredible confusion over emerging and emergentto me emergent is that which is much more owned by america and a megachurch mind set of experienceit totally includes the Bell, Driscoll and Mcmanus and many other forms of great churches pasing the baton from modernity to postmodernity.the very escence of the work emerging speaks of that on the very cusp of being. I think Gibbs and Bolger are fairly justified in ruling out the dominant and more vocal to give voice to the voiceless and show there is much more going on out there than that that is funded by the mega.when you say that their choice has exluding leading voices in the movement is in which movement and whose movement. All those you mentioned are great leaders but most of them have weight specifically in relation to the emergent movement or now what is being called the emerging conversation probably should be called the emergent conversation. Now I have huge respect for mclaren and the rest but conversations talk more than they do or act, the emerging church isn't a conversation the emerging church is emerging/happening. the conversation is important. but to me the exciting story's are comeing from the edge, new things from scratch happening now responding to the now postmodern or not world.I america needs to wake up to the emerging church as well as the emergent conversation. Things are going on in your and our (europe's) back yard that are off the map and have a lot to teach.I think G and B give those happenings a voce

Andy

Thanks for your comments. To review, what you are saying is: 1. S.P Andress is saying that it may indeed may be a helpful clarification for Gibbs and Bolger to distinguish "emerging churches" as truly independent organic outcroppings rather than those connected to some larger institution. 2. Anonymous tries to introduce his terminology. "Emergent conversation" is American and can include megachurches and is mostly lots of talk. "Emerging churches" is more international and less visible and is helpfully depicted in the Gibbs/Bolger book. Also more confusing is that "emergent" is specifically an organization with a website and conferences. www.emergentvillage.com Do McManus, Bell, and Driscoll claim to be emergent/emerging? From what I have heard - no. But they seem to embody some of the principles in the megachurch form. Thanks for your comments.

Eric Wilbanks

Sorry for joining the conversation so late...Thanks for the review. This is obviously another "must-read," but with so many interesting blogs and comments, who has time for books anymore? ;-)I've always considered the "emergent" crowd and related ministries as follows: "Traditional models re-imagined for a post-modern world." That's where Bell, Driscoll, McManus and others fit.The confusion arises, though, out of our attempts to describe this very non-traditional approach to church that seems to be "emerging" alongside the other models. Barna calls it the "Revolution." Cole calls it "Organic Church." Many in the house church movement are calling it "Simple Church." Personally, I prefer any of those terms to "Emerging" because that word is already branded as part of the "emergent" community mentioned earlier. It is also true that these non-traditional experiences are a sort of new reformation in that much more is being challenged than strategies. Traditional Ecclesiology is being mercilessly scrutinized along with sacred assumptions of roles, requirements and regulations concerning the ecclesia as wel as the individual person of faith.So where are all the great "Labelers" when you need them? This movement needs a name that will differentiate it from "emergent" and that will stick in the minds of those interested. My personal "pet name" is the "UnChurch," because most members of the Body would have a hard time identifying these experiences as church. They simply lack the necessary identifiers.

Anonymous

Hello,Great site! We've done home church for a while and its been good. Relationships are some of the most precious things God can give us. Real ones! But like anything else, the more religion you let into it, the more dead it becomes. We try to let Jesus instigate everything.I am a musician, and I would be honored if you would check out my music. All of the music is free for download. Anyway, just thought that I'd share.Thanks,-Sean ___________________www.SeanDietrich.com"All my music is free for download."

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Books I'm Reading (March 2010)

  • Michael Lewis: The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine

    Michael Lewis: The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine
    I can't wait to read this book which comes out March 15th. Greed, deceit, incompetency and a great story. Lewis wrote The Blind Side and Moneyball--both of which are great. Washington Post financial columnist Steven Pearlstein says, "If you read only one book about the causes of the recent financial crisis, let it be Michael Lewis's, 'The Big Short.'"

  • William H. Willimon: Conversations with Barth on Preaching

    William H. Willimon: Conversations with Barth on Preaching
    This is the most academically rigorous of all Willimon's books and reflects deeply on what we should get from Barth and what we should press him about.

  • James William McClendon, Jr.: Systematic Theology, Vol. 1: Ethics

    James William McClendon, Jr.: Systematic Theology, Vol. 1: Ethics
    After Barth, Bonhoeffer, Yoder, MacIntyre, Newbigin, and Hauerwas and Volf, I am now enjoying working through the three volumes by baptist theologian McClendon (1924-2000). The Christian Century obituary includes these statements, A widely admired theologian with Southern Baptist roots, one who moved comfortably in ecumenical circles, had the pleasure of viewing a finished copy of the third and final volume of his life work, Systematic Theology, shortly before his death at age 76. James William McClendon Jr. died on October 30 at his home near Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California, where he was distinguished scholar-in-residence for the past ten years. "He saw the book just before he lost consciousness," said wife Nancey Murphy, professor of theology at Fuller . . . Theologian Stanley Hauerwas of Duke Divinity School said McClendon's three volumes--titled Ethics, Doctrine and Witness, in that sequence--"will acquire increasing significance and regard" among theologians. "It's the first presentation of what a theology would look like that takes very seriously the work of [the late] John Howard Yoder," he said. See also the fascinating profile of James Wm. McClendon, Jr. by Michael L. Westmoreland-White.

  • George Eliot: Middlemarch

    George Eliot: Middlemarch
    Eugene Peterson has said about it, "The tangle of spiritual intimacy and vocational pride that is the worm in the apple of the Christian life is diagnostically narrated here in an unforgettable story." This week Alan Jacobs highlights Rebecca Mead's comment that "Sometimes I feel as if everything that is worth knowing about love and marriage (and maybe about everything else, too) can be learned from reading Middlemarch.”

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